Comments on: Sustainable Sites 4.2 – Alternative Transportation – Bicycle Storage & Changing Rooms

By: mike

mike — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:26:09 +0000

Pat –
Your BDC reference guide says to use one shower for every 1,000 FTE occupants. How is this derived? Shouldn’t it be one shower for every 200 FTE occupants (0.005 x 200 = 1)?

Also, do separate M/F showers have to be provided (i.e., is one or two the minimum number)?

Thanks

By: anne

anne — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:12:13 +0000

Does anyone know that if showers are in a facility such as a nearby gym would the owner have to pay for gym membership? Thanks.

By: Marc

Marc — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:04:49 +0000

how do you calculate transient occupants in the calculations for ssc4.2?

By: Amy

Amy — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:01:31 +0000

I have a question on Mark’s calculation and I just want to clarify that I don’t do my calculations wrong on the test(I take it April 27th):

The part time students are not calculated as
52+2+8(half of 16) the question being to get the 8FTE for the students it’s not divided by 2

it’s 16 students working 20hrs a week
so:
20hrs/5days a week = 4hrs a day
4/8 = .5 that’s the FTE .5 X 16 students = 8

Right?

By: parker

parker — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:21:04 +0000

Ah ok, that makes sense. I think you are right. THanks for clearing that up.

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:24:13 +0000

Parker-
The reason I include student workers in this case for shower calcs is that they are part time occupant type and not transient occupant type. I agree that students(transient) are not included in shower calcs but this is a different case. Hope this makes sense. Thats my opinion, Anybody any comment?
good luck parker, monday is just few days left. Mine is next sat. If possible let us know how was ur exam once you give it-i mean type of ques asked.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:06:03 +0000

Mark: you keep including students in your shower calculations, this the only reason I ask. Sorry heh, as I said . .. trying to iron out all the details here.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:04:27 +0000

Mark: Whats your opinion on the “50% of students and visitors are assumed to use a flush and flow fixture in the building and NO shower or kitchen sink” stated in the Reference guide in WE3? Do you think it applies to all shower calculations?

Trippin’ on the details atm because I take the exam next Monday.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:57:12 +0000

Although, to be fair the question does ask how many showers will need to be added and technically 3, isnt correct. I chalk this up to a poorly written question.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:54:25 +0000

LOL yea, I guess you are right LEED AP. It so painfully obvious. Lost in the details we were. GRR

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:14:38 +0000

I guess LEED AP is right, if the options are as given in this question one should choose B. Bravo!

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:11:50 +0000

By student worker I meant, they will be considered as part time workers and thus will be counted in the shower calculation.

By: LEED AP

LEED AP — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:11:32 +0000

and You always round up.

By: LEED AP

LEED AP — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:10:36 +0000

ALL,
B is the correct ans. since it’s the only option that provids you with 4 bike racks.

so you are provide 3 shower instead of 1 (that is required) so what is the big deal. There are no max. requirments for shower heads.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:03:57 +0000

Thanks Reenu

By: Reenu

Reenu — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:59:31 +0000

Parker:

Rounding in these kind of scenarios is always rounded UP.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:52:36 +0000

“as per the reference guide under calculations- In buildings with multiple shifts, use only the highest volume shift in the FTE calculation but consider shift overlap when determining peak building users”

You’re right about the multiple shifts, my bad.

“also these are student workers so they will be included in shower calculation.”

Not sure what you mean here, however students are exempt from shower calculations as far as I can tell. I could be wrong, but check out Page 140 LEED NC 2.2 ED 2. “50% of students and visitors are assumed to use a flush and flow fixture in the building and NO shower or kitchen sink.” It is a bit hidden, and located in WEC3, but I would assume this would be consistent across all credits as many other items are. Any ideas? Wish we could do a CIR hehe.

If I am correct about the student/shower issue then the calculations would bee

Bikes:

Full Time= 2 Managers + 58 Labors = 60
Part Time = 16 part time students @ 4 hours per day = 64 hours / 8 = 8

60 + 8 = 68 FTE

.05 x 68 = 3.4 Round up to 4

Answer: 4 bike spaces required (no change)

Showers:

According to LEED “50% of students and visitors are assumed to use a flush and flow fixture in the building and NO shower or kitchen sink”; thus we can not include students in the shower calculation.

60 x .005 = .3 You can’t provide half a shower so round up to 1 (im not positive about rounding up or down… could someone clarify?)

Answer: 1 shower required. (no change)

As you said, our answers end up being the same

On a side note, can someone clarify when to round up/down for these calculations.

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:55:53 +0000

Parker,
as per the reference guide under calculations- ” In buildings with multiple shifts, use only the highest volume shift in the FTE calculation but consider shift overlap when determining peak building users”
Therefore, 3 night shift workers will not be included as FTE under shower calculation, also these are student workers so they will be included in shower calculation.

For showers it should be 58+2+8=68 FTE
no. of showers=68*.005=.34

Anyways, the answer is 1 shower either way but just to make this clear.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:43:53 +0000

One more thing to point out. Transients also do not count in the shower calculations.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:42:39 +0000

I should also point out LEED also states “20% of retail occupants are assumed to use a flush and flow fixture in the building and NO shower or kitchen sinks”

Don’t forget these, as they can greatly affect calculations.

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:36:55 +0000

Bikes:

Full Time= 2 Managers + 58 Labors + 3 cleaners (8 hours a night is the same as 8 hours a day) = 63
Part Time = 16 part time students @ 4 hours per day = 64 hours / 8 = 8

63 + 8 = 71 FTE

.05 x 71 = 3.55 Round up to 4

Answer: 4 bike spaces required

Showers:

63 x .005 = .32 You can’t provide half a shower so round up to 1 (im not positive about rounding up or down… could someone clarify?)

Answer: 1 shower required.

Just to clarify…. 3 showers would require an FTE of at least 600 (600 x .005 = 3) which would also mean you would need at least require at least 30 secure bike storage locations so I think the test question is wrong.

By: Reenu

Reenu — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:04:12 +0000

Yeah I also agree with your calculations Mark. Can someone please help with this qn?

Thanks.

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:08:32 +0000

According to my calcs, it should be 4 bike storage locations and 1 shower, which is not an option here

For Storage locations:
no. peak time users=FTE +transient occupants=58+2+8(half of 16)=68 (note:transient occupants is 0 in this case)
storage reqd=5% of peak time users=4 approx.

For showers:
FTE here is 58+2+8(half of 16)=68
night shift workers are excluded(as per reference guide)
showers= .5% of FTE= 1approx.

Any comments??

By: Copa

Copa — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:22:38 +0000

Sample Test Question:
-A large tire manufacturer has the following staff: 2 full time managers, 58 full time laborers, 16 part time student workers who average 20hrs per week and a cleaning staff of 3 who work an 8 hour shift at night. The LEED team is pursing SS4.2. How many bikes rack locations will need to be avaible and how many showers will the tire manufactured need to add to its site?
A. 2 bike storage locations & 2 Showers
B. 4 bike storage locations & 3 Showers
C. 2 bike storage locations & 1 Showers
D. 3 bike storage locations & 3 Showers

Why is B the right answer????

By: John

John — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:29:48 +0000

Pat, thank you for providing such a great resource!
Further to Joseph’s question #13 above, it appears that SS4.2 (unlike WEc2) does not assume that the FTE occupants would be 50% male and 50% female therefore the 1 shower facility would then need to be shared. Is this correct?

By: Ella

Ella — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:24:12 +0000

I have the same question as Kathryn… If they are transient, they should not be showering in the facilities, but example calculations still count them in

By: kathryn irons

kathryn irons — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:19:39 +0000

I’ve read through the Reference Guide for Bikes and Storage,the above discussions, and an example credit submittal template,and want to make sure I have it straight:
Res Bikes – 15% OCCUPANTS
Non-Res Bikes – 5% Peak Users (FTE + Transients)
Non-Res Showers – .5% FTE (NOT Transients)*
*The non-res showers is the one least clear to me, based on the equation and chart on page 55 of the Reference Guide. The text says “.5% of the FTE occupants” but the chart gives total FTE’s and then adds the transients for the Occupant value for LEED Calcs. So, do you include transients in this FTE calculation (or all FTE calculations for that matter?)

thanks,

katie

By: 5daystogo

5daystogo — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:57:43 +0000

^^nevermind abive post, CIR was not fo NC

By: 5daystogo

5daystogo — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:36:36 +0000

Reading CIR applicable to SUSTAINABLE SITES: Alternative Transportation, Bicycle Storage & Changing Rooms the ruling was on 2/26/2007 and

stated” bicycle storage units {has also been miscalculated,} and should be based on the credit requirements of 3% of the occupants for up to 300,000 square feet, then an additional 0.5% (not 5%) for the occupants for the space over 300,000 square feet.

is this new?

By: Andy

Andy — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 07:35:28 +0000

thanks Pat

my mean is:
PEAK building user = FTE + transient

so PEAK is not equal to FTE and actually there are big difference between them(see the example in LEED NC P55).

so I think ‘provide bike rack (based on 0.05 FTE measured at PEAK periods) within 200 yards’ is not appropriate. I think it should be 0.05 PEAK building users.

By: Pat

Pat — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:09:56 +0000

Thanks Andy,

0.05 is the same as 5% and .005 is the same as 0.5%.

Do you think your way or this way is easy to understand?

By: Andy

Andy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:07:25 +0000

I think there are some mistake in this credit description.

it should be:

i)5% of PEAK building users and
ii).5% of FTE

By: Joseph

Joseph — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:54:55 +0000

So if I have a commercial space that has 1000 full time employees (thus 1000 FTE) I must provide storage for atleast 1000×0.05 = 50 bikes and 1000×0.005 = 5 shower facilites.

If I only have 10 FTEs as stated above, I must provide storage for atleast 0.5 bikes (round up to 1) and atleast 0.05 showers (round up to 1 shower).

Am I understanding the math correctly?

By: valeria

valeria — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:02:39 +0000

I don’t think they ever stipulate the distance for residential, I think they assume there is storage as part of ea residence …
You might check the CIR’s on the USGBC website, I vaguely remember someone had a mix use project they were trying to sort out for this credit.

By: jay

jay — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:14:08 +0000

just to clarify… there is no distance requirement for residential bike racks? only for commercial? it’s difficult to tell from the way it is worded. thanks!