Comments on: Energy and Atmosphere 4 – Enhanced Refrigerant Management

By: Lule

Lule — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:21:37 +0000

like Arpita still do not get if you can use natural refrigerants for option 1
just need some clarification
thanks a lot for such a great web site

By: David

David — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:56:30 +0000

Can anyone explain why the Rc (refrigerant charge) default values listed in Table 2, are not being used in any of the example calculations and where the Rc values that are being used are coming from?

Thanks

By: Arpita

Arpita — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:15:22 +0000

Tyler:

Projects that employ natural refrigerants including water, co2 and ammonia are eligible for Option 1, EA c.4

By: parker

parker — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:02:25 +0000

As I understand it, the point for enhanced refrigerant management is to fully comply with the montreal protocol.

In the prereq, you are really only focused on Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). According to the MP, these were to be phased out by 1996 so the prereq wants any renovation to comply.

The montreal protocol doesn’t stop there though, there are more halogenated hydrocarbons which it addresses. Halons for instance must be phased out by 2010 (a requirement for EAC4). HCFCs are to by phased out by 2030 (also addressed by using only NATURAL refrigerants or no refrigerants).

Finally, all refrigerants used should still have a low ODP and a low GWP, or it would be counter intuitive to use them as replacements.

Hope this helps

By: a

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:32:40 +0000

is the main difference between the prereq. 3 and this credit that for the pre-req. you cannot use cfc’s but does not specify not using other cfcs– but for this credit, it gives further details of specific refrigerants not to use. ?? Just need some clarification.

By: Reenu

Reenu — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:20:51 +0000

Hey Pat:

Do we have to memorize the formulas and equations given in this section??? Although LEED AP walkthrough indicates that it is not required.

Please confirm.

Thanks.

By: Manoj Kumar N

Manoj Kumar N — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:31:04 +0000

Hi,

i have doubt in Finding out the Rc – Refrigerant Charge of various refrigerants, guys Can you please explain me.

By: Ibtihal

Ibtihal — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:57:24 +0000

do i need to memorize the formula and equations in requirement for exam?

By: Julio

Julio — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:43:17 +0000

Are HFC’s able to be used for Option 2? HFC’s have low to no ODP however have slightly above average GWP.

So I’m fuzzy on whether HFC’s will help achieve Option 2?

By: Donia

Donia — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:47:17 +0000

Jon,
I had the same question so I came on here…but I just figured it out…in the Spring 2007 errata they posted that there was incorrect calculations for that example (and for example 2, but it still qualifies). The LCODPx10^5 is wrong for the 2-ton and 1-ton split units. Instead of 35.2 and 25.2 they should read 352 and 252 which changes the Refrigerant Atmospheric Impact for the units and then that just completely changes the totals. In the end, the average should be 108.3, not 94.7, so it actually is greater than 100.

By: Ella

Ella — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:51:46 +0000

do we need to know calculations for this credit? I am covering last minute things; testing in 5 days.
Thanks.

By: jon

jon — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:44:46 +0000

refering to the example provided for this credit in the V2.2 reference manual, why does the school classroom building not comply with EAc4? even though the average refrigerant atmospheric impact is <100

By: Richard

Richard — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:06:14 +0000

Lynn,

In my experience, it’s tough to get Option 2 with R410 if you are using split systems, unless maybe the line length is really short. This is because one of the big variables is the pounds of refrigerant per ton of conditioning, which gets larger as you have longer refrigerant piping. If you can show justification for a significantly longer service life, like 20 years, then you might be able to make it work. Otherwise, rooftop units using R410 are the way to get this credit.

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:36:03 +0000

Lynn,

CFC are not allowed per EAp3: Fund. Refrig. Mgmt.

So I think that any non-CFC refrigerants can be used for Option 2 provided the refrigerant/HVAC systems LCGWP plus its (LCODP * 10^5) are less than or equal to 100.

By: Lynn

Lynn — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:22:33 +0000

“OPTION 2: use refrigerants and HVAC that minimizes or eliminates emission of compounds that cause ozone depletion & global warming ”

Pat, or anybody, what does option 2 refer to, if not the HFC listed above? In particular, can you use R410 to comply with Option 2?

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:31:19 +0000

Thanks!

By: Pat

Pat — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:56:56 +0000

Bill, im not quite sure exactly what you’re asking, but HCFCs and HFCs are refrigerants, so for Option 1, they should NOT be used.

Let me know if you need any further clarification. Thanks Bill.

Best of luck to you!

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:36:40 +0000

can you use HCFCs or HFCs here in for Prereq 3?

By: Tyler

Tyler — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:42:54 +0000

Will the use of natural refrigerants such as CO2, ammonia, water; work for Option #1. I see them cited in the ‘Do Not Use Refrigerants’ section on p219 v2.2 but it doesn’t really clearly specifiy.

By: valeria

valeria — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:13:16 +0000

This is one of those Credits that claims to have NO reference standard and goes into pretty specific detail in the implemenataion where you definitely need to comply with the Clean Air Act Title 6 for the leakage reporting

and the Montreal Protocol is mentioned also in the Implementation , sub heading Select with low ODP and GWP-they are trying to address the dilemma that a low ODP refrigerants are not the most energy efficient, and cause more global warming… technologies are hoped to be in place where they agreed to phase out CFC and HCFC by 2030 so Get Designing!